"Terrific discussion everyone! I would place HG in the YA catagory. The tone seemed so mature, even brooding or bleak at times. I am writing in the Upper MG category and was just about to put that term in my query letter. Perhaps I shoud…"
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Anne Severn Williamson replied to L. A. Steven's discussion Is there really an upper MG category? in the group Middle Grade Lair
Jared Bond replied to L. A. Steven's discussion Is there really an upper MG category? in the group Middle Grade Lair"For me, HG is in YA not because of the violence, but because of the romantic themes. If you ignore the violence, it's a story about a girl torn between two love interests. And then it's also a struggle against oppression, and…"
StaffLM Preston replied to L. A. Steven's discussion Prince of Silverlake -- L. A. Steven in the group First Pages (Crit Group)
"LA love fantasy.
Some suggestions. I liked the second paragraph much more. I didn't quite understand what was going on in the first exept he woke up. Also, the task of waking up lagged the flow as well as the large amount of backstory.…"
L. A. Steven commented on Adrienne Gelbart's blog post 2011 Amazon Breakthrough Novel Award"Do you know if any of the winning pitches from previous years have been posted someplace? It'd be nice to see a few examples."
L. A. Steven replied to LM Preston's discussion YA Book Trends 2011 from Rachael aka Horserider"When you say that fantasy is still popular, what kind of fantasy are you seeing? Traditional (or High)? Urban? Steampunk? Something else?"
Susan Kaye Quinn replied to L. A. Steven's discussion Is there really an upper MG category? in the group Middle Grade Lair"Great discussion! I'm a rabid Collins fan as well, but I put HG in YA because of the violence - or at least young teens (which is what I call ages 12-14, but it's not a universal term). But it sounds like your UMG age range is the same as…"
Jessica B. Wisniewski replied to L. A. Steven's discussion Is there really an upper MG category? in the group Middle Grade Lair""Marketing aside, would you consider Hunger Games UMG or YA? It doesn't have sex, the themes are somewhat dark but not beyond anything most MG boys see in their video games and the writing itself is intelligent but not overly…"
StaffC. Lee McKenzie replied to L. A. Steven's discussion Is there really an upper MG category? in the group Middle Grade Lair
"That would be a great question to ask during an agent chat night. I've never used that term in a query because I haven't written what I'd consider an UMG book.
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L. A. Steven replied to L. A. Steven's discussion Is there really an upper MG category? in the group Middle Grade Lair"Thanks for the thoughtful replies. I definitely agree that market demand blurs the distinctions and categories and that many middle graders (by age) can and do read up to YA and adult. I remember my own reading at that age! UMG thus does seem to be…"
Catherine Stine replied to L. A. Steven's discussion Is there really an upper MG category? in the group Middle Grade Lair"Great post, Jess! You explained it so well.
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Jessica B. Wisniewski replied to L. A. Steven's discussion Is there really an upper MG category? in the group Middle Grade Lair"L.A.-
As a teacher, I'm faced with this question a lot in choosing books for my classroom library. I think, honestly, that there is a continuously growing "gray area" between the two genres. In my humble opinion, I think the reasons…"
StaffC. Lee McKenzie replied to L. A. Steven's discussion Is there really an upper MG category? in the group Middle Grade Lair
"I agree with Catherine, and there are discussions in Middle Grade Lair that address this question. You might take a look at what we've shared. BTW, glad you're here."
Catherine Stine replied to L. A. Steven's discussion Is there really an upper MG category? in the group Middle Grade Lair"I believe there is, though it's not officially written in the cover page or anything like that. Younger MG might be like How to Train Your Dragon. Upper, are the novels that reach 300 pages or are more complicated in terms of theme and plot.…"
L. A. Steven added a discussion to the group Middle Grade Lair
Is there really an upper MG category?
Hi, I'm pretty new to the site, but I thought I'd ask a question that I've had for some time. I sometimes read (on this site and others) people commenting that their WIP is an upper MG novel, but I was wondering if there really is such a category from the perspective of potential agents and editors. Would they see such a description as a valid characterization or rather as the author not really knowing what their book is?If you think there is such a category, what distinguishes it from MG and…See More
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First Pages (Crit Group)
Join to have the first 5 pages of your mss reviewed by members of #YAlitchat. You must be a member here to participate. Group Coordinator: Jessie Harrell
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Comment Wall (3 comments)
- At 3:04pm on December 2, 2010,
Elizabeth Prats said… - I've run into the same issue. They say fantasy but what they meant was urban fantasy or paranormal romance etc. Well, honestly I've been considering only looking for agents who represent fantasy and not looking for YA or MG agents. You can find these on agent query or querytracker.net and I think, but don't quote me on this one--but the sci-fi/fantasy writers of america may have a list of purely fantasy agents. Not sure. Really its a matter of slugging through and researching. High fantasy is a really hard sell right now. Miriam Kriss told me that at a conference and I believe her.
Just got to keep at it or try something new while you query that project. I'm finishing up an urban fantasy MG which hopefully I can query and then mention I've also got a high fantasy project. So if ur first ms doesn't get u an agent--ur second may and that could lead to representation for the first one.
- At 5:11pm on December 1, 2010, Elizabeth Prats said…
- Hey,
Well it's definitely been frustrating. At first I was shopping it around as YA fantasy, but then was told it had more of a MG feel. As far as what I've learned, well, its tough and you just have to keep going. If it's not selling now--try working on another project (I'm workin on a MG urban fantasy atm). BUT don't give up. I'm making some edits that I feel are improving the manuscript. Basically, if you're going to go with high fantasy try to make it as best as possible and avoid the cliches of the genre.
As far as agents--try to make sure you find the agents who represent high fantasy. There are a few. I've dreaming about Beth Fleisure of Goldblatt--and I believe Jennifer Jackson at Donald Maass.
I've been toying with the idea of searching for agents who merely represent high fantasy no YA or MG.
Have you learned anything thus far about querying fantasy?
- At 6:15pm on November 23, 2010,
StaffNicōle Olea said… - Welcome to YALITCHAT.ORG! We’re happy you’re here and know you must be eager to get started. We’ve prepared a NEW MEMBERS WELCOME PAGE just for you--please be sure to visit there first to help acclimate you to the site, community and content. You will also find links to FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS, ABOUT US, COMMUNITY RULES and MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION helpful. As YALITCHAT.ORG operates on a tiered membership structure some of our services and groups are available to those who have a TIER II level membership. For more information, please visit the MEMBERSHIP INFORMATION page. If you have any questions, please let me know. Otherwise, we invite you to introduce yourself in the Meet and Greet section of our forum! Have fun getting to know YALITCHAT.ORG, our various groups! Our Group Coordinators and community leaders are always here to help if you need it. Again, welcome!
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